Joe Quattrone 00:36
We’re back here at the FUZZEE-‘ish podcast, your host Joey Q, we’ve got JMG JM, we had a really great conversation with Mike Hardenbrook, author of No Willpower Required a neuroscience approach to changing your habits with alcohol. What do you think that the audience can infer from this conversation we have? Like,

JM Guthrie 00:59
yeah, man, I, what a great conversation. What a good dude, what an incredible amount of similarities in what his book talks about and what we talk about. I feel like our show could be the kinda neuroscientific approach to not drinking, instead of the kind of sober show. I mean, he’s that close, super cool guy with lots of really great perspectives. And I think one of the things that we can really take away and even I took away from this conversation is, you can put some real parameters around it in some real kind of objectives to get started, right. You know, I think that there is something to be said for having kind of a first step or in there to how to move towards a total lifestyle. And I think a lot of what he had to say, is a great example of just that.

Joe Quattrone 01:47
Somebody told me a plan without goals is just hopes and wishes. I love how he lays out the specific amount of days it really takes to really change the neural pathways in your brain to be able to actually have change take effect.

JM Guthrie 02:01
Yeah, dude. I mean, I’m a direct example of a guy that could not have done this, had I not had an explicit directive towards getting the first 30 days, right, like I did it for that diet, because I was driven by wanting to lose some weight, and just feel healthier from a physical perspective, and started to feel some of the mental and sort of connective impacts that we’ve talked a lot about on this show. And so it does, it does not surprise me that there’s science behind the fact that if you can make it 66 days without a drink, you’re going to be able to have a better perspective. And really look at yourself in the mirror differently about your relationship with alcohol to make a more informed decision on what’s best for you.

Joe Quattrone 02:43
All right, so you heard it here, listeners, buckle up for an exclusive interview with Mike carbrook. We hope you like it. And we hope you share it and you get in touch with all your friends who might be in need of this podcast at this moment in their life. Awesome. Welcome back to the fuzzy ish podcast, the kindness over Show. I’m your host Joe Quattrone and with me today are my co host JM Guthrie in our special guest, Mike Hart and Brooke MyChart and Brooke is recognized for his novel approach to habit change, employing innovative neuroscience based methods to foster personal growth. Over his 15 year career media outlets such as NPR, Fox and CBS have featured his work. Despite his professional achievements, Mike faced personal challenges in altering his alcohol habits, he found few effective resources to assist them. This led to him embarking on a journey of research and personal experimentation. From this, he developed groundbreaking strategies that combined the mind and body, creating a holistic approach to lasting change. Best Selling Author endorses Mike’s methodologies, praising them as a compelling guide to lasting change. Adam Kontos, the former CEO of Remax commends Mike’s exceptional talent in delivering influence that brings about results and drives positive change. dive deeper into MyChart and Brooks transformative techniques at Heartland brook.com. Who’s got a new book out or a new book soon to come out called no willpower requires a neuroscience approach to change your alcohol habits or to change your habits with alcohol I should say. Mike JM Welcome to the show.

Mike Hardenbrook 04:25
Dude, Mike’s awesome for you. Yeah, man.

Joe Quattrone 04:27
So I think you’re gonna break new grounds on the fuzziest podcast. Mike, you’re our first author that we’ve had on but your career spans a lot more than just writing books. And, you know, heck, I mean, me and you were even talking, you’re not even a neuroscientist. You just love the field of neuroscience. You love researching and studying and you felt compelled to write this book. Tell us a little bit before we get into, you know what really forged your desire to create this book and put something out there for the universe. Tell us a little bit about your actual background. You’re kind of what led us. What led you up to this point in your career? Yeah, totally.

Mike Hardenbrook 05:04
So let’s go back. I’ll just give you a quick synopsis about my background and my relationship with alcohol dating back to youth. So I had a pretty normal, you know, high school relationship with alcohol. I didn’t drink until I was a junior in high school. Actually a question. I gotta watch for you guys out of curiosity. When was the first time you guys had alcohol?

Joe Quattrone 05:27
I am 13 years old. There was a kid 20 Down 30 the keg party down the street on Barton Hill. I think their jam knows this family. I won’t say it on air here. But there’s a family up on a certain Hill in Reston, Virginia. And there was a keg party at one of my older brothers’ houses and I think it was Ben Schrader and come on people. And we might have just snuck out of my house and procured red solo cups and filled them with something. Because beast, Milwaukee’s best,

Mike Hardenbrook 05:57
my first Oh, yeah.

JM Guthrie 05:58
I remember stories better than that. I was younger than that. And I would say, maybe single digits, probably not say 1011 years old, went into a cabinet in my house that had the bottles that I saw people pour into their cups and was kind of curious what that was all about. So I grabbed a bottle of peach schnapps, and I poured it in orange juice. It was terrible. Made me feel sick very quickly. And I am excited. Don’t believe I’ve drank peach snap since because of GE even the recollection that I have right now thinking about what that tastes like. It’s very clear. So

Mike Hardenbrook 06:37
yeah, smart, man. I mean, since we’re sharing, I think my first one was my friend. My best friend’s mom had a liquor cabinet, we got a bottle of tequila, and we climbed onto the school roof. And we didn’t even have a lime. So we got a grapefruit off of a citrus tea tree in Arizona and cut it up. And you know, you chug it. And you’re like, you don’t know alkyl work. So you think, well, it’s not doing anything. So plug your nose and basically put it down. And then before we knew it, you’re kind of on our backs and on our asses. You know? Okay, yeah, that’s hidden. So anyways, but pretty much pretty normal through high school, college as a fraternity guys, so alcohol was the center of every single social function. And it was also like, you know, a macho thing to be able to chug beers and, you know, act like a wild, crazy frat guy. And then, but I still did really well in school as academics is why I was there. I never got into any kind of trouble or anything like that. So it wasn’t a major problem. It was just kind of like a product of my environment. Once you get into grad school, however, that’s when I think it’s sort of changed. So I never really grew up, you know, out of that environment from high school to college. And so, to me, I didn’t drink during the day ever. In my mind, I did drink. And I didn’t drink hard alcohol, except for that one instance that I guys told you about. I was pretty much just

Joe Quattrone 08:08
because we weren’t doing it right. All the good stuff happens during the day, man, that’s, that was my job.

Mike Hardenbrook 08:13
He always used to be an evening guy, you know? Yeah,

JM Guthrie 08:17
I mean, we like to say that we have kind of all the weight classes covered on the fuzzy ish podcast of, you know, Carrie is our resident heavyweight, he went deep in a lot of things. And it didn’t matter what time of day, or how many days in a row. Joe, you know, kind of gave it up due to some health drivers and never really had gotten that far into the bottle himself either. And then, um, somewhere in the middle is sort of the Welter middle way. I think, Mike, actually, we’d have to put you below Joe, I think you’d be like the Featherweight potentially on our Well, I

Mike Hardenbrook 08:50
don’t, I don’t know if it was, I mean, he got up there, I was just very specific, like I was a high producer. And so I just didn’t have any time in the day for that sort of thing. And here’s the thing is like, actually, and we can go into this later if there’s a spectrum of where you are within your drinking, I also think there’s a spectrum of how it affects you. So like, for example, there are some people that could drink all day long, the next day, they wake up, they might be hungover, but emotionally and functionally, like, they don’t feel bad about it. There’s like, like, they don’t have major anxiety or depression or and actually, that’s, you know, I used to think, Boy, I wish I could be like that, but that’s a final thing. That’s, you know, absent some people is really a bad thing. And for me, if I was to drink all day, the next day, I would just be an emotional wreck. So I also just knew that it wasn’t something that I could do even if I wanted to do it.

JM Guthrie 09:47
Ya know, I wasn’t necessarily saying you didn’t get deep but like not to drink hard alcohol and not ever during the day. That puts you there’s

Mike Hardenbrook 09:54
a reason for that. I drink everything fast. Doesn’t matter if it’s this coffee, if it’s water or whatever, I drink it fast. So if I was gonna drink if I had a hard alcohol, that thing would be gone in a second.

JM Guthrie 10:06
Yeah. So I mean, we could talk about this another time and maybe we’ll do it without Mike. We’ll talk about him. But I actually think he, I’ve hung with Joe AQ, a heavy into the bottle, we went to the same university, and he went pretty hard back then. So we might put you in the welterweight featherweight count category for the show, but we’ll have to keep me out of the Featherweight. Yeah. Okay. We’ll keep you in a little bit of progress here. So yeah.

Mike Hardenbrook 10:32
Yeah, so I don’t want to go too long on my story. But you know, fast forward, basically, it turned into grad school. So you’re not going to the parties and raffle and all that stuff. But I still had that, you know, want to feel like I was doing something like falling or whatever. So I lived in London at the time during grad school. And so it was pop culture. So it was always the pub after grads after classes, or it was, you know, a bottle of wine, whether it be by myself or with my girlfriend at the time.

Joe Quattrone 11:03
Did you become a soccer hooligan? Were the stories getting written for Chelsea or something like that? And,

Mike Hardenbrook 11:09
man, I just couldn’t ever get into it to be honest. So yeah, no, it wasn’t me. But yeah, so like, you know, it just kind of continued on nothing crazy. And it wasn’t every single night. But as it progressed, I sort of launched a career. I did the four hour work week thing where, you know, if anybody doesn’t know Tim Ferriss, you know, his whole thing is you work four hours a week, spend most of your time traveling and enjoying yourself. Well, I kind of cracked that nut and was able to get a full time income on very little work which Matt and I operate by yourself, which meant I had no boss, lots of time. 00 accountability to anybody but myself

Joe Quattrone 11:50
in your 20s. At this point, I feel like waves

Mike Hardenbrook 11:54
are just, yeah, mid to late 20s, mid to late 20s. Like 26 Maybe somewhere around

JM Guthrie 12:00
here. The Hustle, man, let’s hear what you are doing for full income by yourself and only having more hours or hours a week.

Joe Quattrone 12:07
Drinking.

JM Guthrie 12:11
Let’s hear the code that cracked it, man, let’s hear it.

Mike Hardenbrook 12:14
Sure. So I didn’t start off that way. This is the most random stuff that I’ve done. I started an international dental inspections and quality assurance agency, which kind of shorter term in a short term is that we inspected a dental offices in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Mexico, multiple locations in Mexico and

Joe Quattrone 12:40
Wherever you go, Sir, here I want to go to Costa Rica. I’m gonna go to audit a bunch of dentists’ offices down there. Is that kind of what you are?

Mike Hardenbrook 12:48
No, it’s true. I did that. I mean, it definitely lumped into like international travel. Oh, Panama also was a noun, that group. And yeah, we did go down and we inspected offices. And I partnered with an American Dental Association inspector, who’s also a dentist, to basically make sure somebody’s not going to go down there and get hepatitis or whatever, but they can get deeply discounted dental work. And so that business did quite well. But what I got really good at was marketing, you know, it was my first business, you gotta hustle, you got to do all that. And this was long, this was like 2008. So like, maybe six. And there weren’t very many, like, courses was not a thing like it is today. You know, people let me build a course. So I built a course. And I had met this guy named Noah Kagan who had a website called AppSumo. He launched the course, which gave me initial traction, and made a bunch of money. And then I started marketing it. And so I took these courses on marketing. And I started bringing in experts kind of like a Udemy style, you know, where you have a collection of other instructors. And so I just built this marketplace full of digital courses. And I, when I started waking up, and I checked my phone, I had like 500 to 1000 in sales while I slept. I was like, Yeah, we’re not doing the dentist’s thing anymore. We’re doing this full time. And yeah, and that just basically led into that hole. And we did the whole digital nomad thing. I traveled

Joe Quattrone 14:24
the world for several years. Sounds like so much fun. So yeah,

JM Guthrie 14:28
at this part, so many questions, but that’s still

Joe Quattrone 14:31
and you’re still getting wrecked off alcohol at this point in your life, right? Cuz you’re in your 20s you’re surfing around the world.

Mike Hardenbrook 14:38
Every night could be a party, especially like I went down to Nicaragua, you know, at the end of the day, of course like 25 cent beers. Why aren’t you just gonna go live it up? So I think

Joe Quattrone 14:49
some of this jam I think he might have just scaled me a little bit in the hierarchy because I was never doing this international digital nomad thing where I was drinking in Nicaragua with like, a bunch of people like that are super cool and way cooler than

Mike Hardenbrook 15:01
Oh, and my security guard knew me only at 3am when I’d climbed the fence while he was

Joe Quattrone 15:05
never had a security guard, so you’re automatically. So then, alright, so your International Man of Mystery, you’re working 40 hours a week and making a shitload of money. And then what happens, you get a corporate job, and you’re like, Oh, I’m gonna go work for the man now, like, what would happen? No.

Mike Hardenbrook 15:22
So that’s a good question. So I knew at some point that I never was worried about the physical aspects, maybe that was just in my youth. But I was, like, I just felt like I wasn’t living on my potential, I didn’t think I, you know, I demand a ton from myself. And so I started questioning it, but it wasn’t enough to trigger a change in my habits. And even when I did, I didn’t even know how to address that correctly. Based on what I know. Now, Priscilla and I had been together for quite a while. And it was when we were getting ready to have our daughter, Haley, our first child together, that I started thinking, you know, I want to be there and present, I want to be able to wake up in the middle of the night, she’s crying and be 100%. There, you know, and it really came down to that, like, I want to be my 100% and I want to be reliable. And any hour of the day or night, you know, before it, there wasn’t a need for that, you know, there was no need for me to get up in the middle of the night and be present. And so that really started to put me down the path of, okay. This is not who I am. And this is definitely not the best version of myself. And so that’s when I started triggering a need for change, you know,

Joe Quattrone 16:51
gotcha. And when did you go about setting out to see that change in yourself, obviously, and, you know, I know that you still do drink periodically now. But it’s definitely not something that dominates your life. And from what I know about you personally, you do have a very healthy relationship with alcohol. But then, you know, in talking to you about the book and getting a quick pre-read myself, I know that this is a very action oriented manual for how any individual can change their habits around alcohol. So what was it with you to kind of lower that intake, I guess you would say or lower the frequency at which you were getting drunk and being hungover and all that kind of stuff? How did you force the change in yourself?

Mike Hardenbrook 17:37
Yeah, failing a lot. I’ll tell you that. You know, because to be honest, like, I was at a point where I definitely didn’t think I was alcoholic. So of course, to confirm that I would take you on one of the tests online. And yet, the tests online definitely told me that I was, however, I did not identify with going to an AAA meeting, which is probably something alcoholics would say, but I just kind of was like, I think I can get it, I just need to be strong. I have already. I don’t, you know, I can walk into a birthday party, and they can have cake. And I’m just like, you know, I’m not interested, but I can’t eat cake. You know, or, you know, like, I always have a routine of working out. So like, in my mind, why can’t I start doing something like this? So I just thought I could brute force willpower in this thing into being.

Joe Quattrone 18:40
So you’re the MyChart and Brooke approach to fasting and like, counting your macronutrients, and like this is going to be a scientific approach to how do I stop drinking less? Is that kind of what you’re getting at? Yeah, well, so

Mike Hardenbrook 18:56
I was just thinking then, like, just do it, you know, like you, the simple answer is just stop. And so I did, you know, like, I would go 30 days, and that was really tough. Especially like, if there were events or parties or travel, which there always is for pretty much everyone, you know, there’s always going to be a reason. But I wouldn’t make it to the 30 days and then what I would find out is kind of end up back in the same spot that I was down the road, you know, and so then I’m just like, alright, well shit. Like this isn’t working. Does that mean I have to quit drinking forever? And that’s where I started kind of experimenting with changing my habits. Because it was too much when I wanted to cut down or limit it right? It was too much for me like, okay only to eat this outside of the house or like I’ll only drink on Saturday, were only like, for me that was just, that’s too much of a decision. So it was, it had to be on or off, at least to start in my mind. And that ended up leading to a big part of the basis of what I write about. What I was doing wrong was that wasn’t going long enough, we stumbled

JM Guthrie 20:20
into this mantra of knee total, for the fuzzy ish podcast, really talking a lot about some of the things, Mike that you mentioned today, which is specific to, you know, sober didn’t necessarily fit for us. And the stigma associated with being sober, or the idea of the 12 steps, or the explicit of alcoholism or being an alcoholic didn’t necessarily fit the frame, even though the quizzes to your point probably told us all that we were right. So coming to a place and realization as individuals that we wanted to make a change as it pertained to alcohol is ultimately what drove us to these paths. And ultimately, you know, ultimately, the number of days that we’ve gone without drinking. The question for you is, where does the path start with this book? Like? What are the people struggling with? What are the challenges that you’re hearing from the community? What are the ways that you’re sort of seeing an opportunity to provide this option or this direction specific to the lives that they’re leaving, in order to get to a better place with their relationship with alcohol? Yeah, for

Mike Hardenbrook 21:25
sure, it actually is very easy to answer that. And that is, has to do with what we talked about, there’s a spectrum, right. And so it’s pretty much like a two sided classification. It’s either you’re a healthy drinker, and you have no problems, or you’re an alcoholic, and you need to not train. But the problem is actually there, there’s a lot of what I call him between drinkers, which is what I classified myself and that you want to stop drinking. And it may be causing problems in your life, but not to the point of, you know, somebody that has a UD, you know, or out or is an alcoholic, but it’s too difficult to kind of just do it by willpower alone. Or just to say, Tomorrow, I’m going to stop. And so the way that I really kind of take a novel approach is by really addressing the issues for that classification. And there is a spectrum like there are people like you that, you know, every day, it was like three, three or four drinks. I mean, honestly, like, there was a time where I was going like, bawling a half wine regularly, you know, so I think the spectrum can go in different ways. And certainly there are people that probably go through periods where they’re drinking much more than that, but not to the point that they’ve reached, needing to go to something like an AAA or a 12 step program. So in my case, it was like, Well, where do you go, you know, or who do you listen to? And, you know, like, I told you, I took that test for, you know, am I an alcoholic? It says, Yes, I turned to Priscilla. And she says, No, you definitely are not. And then Priscilla took the test. Who doesn’t drink a lot? It told her she’s an alcoholic. So like, it’s like, also, how do you even Well, I and your classification,

Joe Quattrone 23:21
you got to understand how the internet works. So like, if there’s a test on the internet, chances are bankrolled by somebody who has a vested interest in you answering yes to that question and putting you on some sort of, so maybe it is funded by Alcoholics Anonymous, or some other entity that wants to get you to stop for some other.

JM Guthrie 23:39
Yeah, your work week entrepreneur, you know, Panama, why you today alcohol is in question.

Mike Hardenbrook 23:49
Yeah. So really, it goes to like, you know, what’s the resource for that large demographic. So like, just to give you an idea, in as far as like, what you just said, chose is for funding, like the alcohol industry knows that the top 10 10% of drinkers account for 50% of all the income that they generate all the sales, right. 20% fall into that moderate category. Those are the heavy drinkers. 20% falls at that moderate to moderate, heavy, there’s a spectrum there. And then 70% of the people very seldomly drink or don’t drink at all, hmm. But 20% of the entire population, that’s a big population, that at some point, likely might want to change their habits, you know, around alcohol, but there’s not a go to not to go to like there is for apes or a 12 step, or rehab. And also, it’s irrelevant to the Mountain View, type of person. So what I really wanted to do was like, you know, when I found kind of a method that worked for me me long term, I wanted to write to the to myself, basically, because I know there’s a lot of people out there just like me that with varying degrees and different backgrounds, and of course, history and situations. But there is like one cause there’s a commonality that I think could be brought together that can help somebody. And that’s really about first understanding, like what’s going on in your body and your mind. Next understanding, like, what are your motivations? And like? What are the underlying reasons that got you to where you are right now? And it’s really about being mindful and taking steps to either replace those habits or change them completely. You know, that’s sort of like, my, where I started and where I have come to now,

Joe Quattrone 25:54
I would also argue, just based on personal experience, that sometimes the people that you love and respect the nearest and dearest the people that are in your immediate inner circle, I don’t know what it is, and why we do this as a people, but we discount their opinion of what we have to say, because even though they’re looking at us on a daily basis, and telling us you should stop drinking, we’re thinking the back of my mind, I’ve got it under control. And every urge is to say, when you think when you’re judging me as like my wife, or whoever, that’s really close to me, I’m telling, I’m feeling offended by that judgment. And no matter how hard my wife would tell me that I need to stop drinking. It wasn’t until my doctor told me I needed to stop drinking, I actually started listening. And then my doctors, my doctor, it’s a credible person, but I don’t see them every single day, I see what, once or twice a year. But I thought I had to take the medical opinion of somebody that could show me my future of what this thing is going to lead to if I don’t stop drinking, whereas I didn’t give enough credit to my wife who saw it every day or every other day. So I think it’s really weird how we do that, as people, we discount the opinions of the people that can bluntly and transparently tell you how it is that we automatically rush to expert opinion, which I think bodes well for you and your book, or if you could be that trusted third party person that’s not your husband or not your boyfriend or whatever, that’s telling people No, yeah, you know, if you want to create habit change, you need to do XYZ, and here’s a field guide to doing that. So I don’t know where I’m going with that in terms of questions. But I’d say from that perspective, like, do you feel a weight of responsibility that there’s going to be people that are going to trust you more than they trust their own husbands? Or wives in the field of habit change in the field of neuro pathways?

Mike Hardenbrook 27:45
Oh, absolutely, there is a high level of responsibility. And it really took a leap of faith in courage on my part to write this because of that responsibility, number one, number two, to put myself out there, and admit that, you know, hey, this is where it was. And it’s, I think a lot of people don’t like to admit it, you know, like most people, they don’t like to admit, hey, especially out there around people that maybe don’t drink at all,

Joe Quattrone 28:17
probably because of what you said about that gray area, you know, like me and jam. And Carrie, we’ve alluded to this point several times. One of the main reasons we created this podcast is that most people hear about alcohol problems, and they assume you wrapped your car around a telephone pole or that like, you know, something grotesque happened in your life. And it’s just not the case. I mean, a lot of people said 70% of drinkers out there could probably easily could if they wanted to, or at least that’s what I picked up on because I fit into this category. So there needs to be resources for the vast majority of people if they want resources to help them quit. You know, just like there’s resources for people that want to lose 10 pounds. There should be resources for people that don’t really drink that much. But they like it socially. And if they want to get off of it,

Mike Hardenbrook 29:03
get off it. Yeah, definitely. I mean, and I was surprised, you know, when I started publicly posting that I was writing the book, I wrote the book longhand, so I would post pictures of writing it in a journal. And a lot of people that have their shit together, so to speak, would write and say, Hey, I would really love a copy of that. And I didn’t look at them like, oh, man, they’re in trouble. They’re just looking to change their relationship or switch from their current situation into one that’s better. You know, and I don’t think you need to be ashamed or embarrassed about that.

JM Guthrie 29:40
So let me ask you a question. The similarities in what you’re saying to Joe’s point why we started this podcast is actually something I want to probably talk a lot longer with you directly off the air about but the idea of there not being necessarily a community that’s been Getting to those people that are somewhere between one and zero or that gray area that Joe mentioned. You know, it’s a big reason why we went through a whole process. One of our producers actually really sort of said, You guys have to have some kind of mantra to pull this together, right? We understand the net that you’re putting out there. But the reality is, it’s not really sober. It’s not really sober, curious, it’s not California, sober. It’s not all these different things. And we came back to this idea of me total, which is a playoff of Teetotalism. But it really centers around what Mike said, which is like you can’t make a change about anything, unless you’re ready to do it for yourself, right? So it’s not even, you know, while it tells me, it’s not selfish. It’s selfless for all those relationships that you had mentioned earlier that you are trying to have a better connection with, when you’re writing this book, or even now, when you’re promoting the book. Is there a way that you tie it together from a community perspective? Like, is there a mantra or, you know, a short form version, not the long format notes of your neurosciences that you sort of talk about? This is the life that you live or that you’re living personally after going through this process? As a person or as an individual?

Mike Hardenbrook 31:14
You know, that’s a good question. I don’t think I have an actual mantra together.

JM Guthrie 31:20
Oh, man, it is totally up to me to be an ambassador of the PA. Yeah.

Joe Quattrone 31:26
So I mean, I think we’re James Golang. For that is like temperature. That’s a word that I keep locking in on and intemperance has a lot of polarizing effects is that, you know, 100 years ago was used in a very kind of weird way, you know, people were trying to ban alcohol federally, and stuff like that actually led to prohibition. And if you look at prohibition statistics, you know, the amount of like domestic abuse went way down, like a lot of stats were weighted, there’s a lot of good things that happened during Prohibition, but then it got repealed and alcohol boomed and all that kind of stuff. But this idea of locking it on the word temperance, or if you want to use a less polarizing terminology adulting, right. Like, I consider myself a professional adult, I like being an adult, I’m trying to have accountability for all of my actions. I want people to look at me at what I do, especially my kids and my wife, be proud of what I do on a daily basis. And that it’s much easier for me to do that, if I don’t consider. So that’s at its core. That’s kind of how I feel about that, that we put some fancy words on it. excellence through temperance, because I think the excellence part is what I would hit on the most. We do want to destigmatize, you know people that don’t consume alcohol, because all Hollywood would ever tell you is that we’re a bunch of squares that drive people around them designated driver, or Uber drivers hands are we have x’s on our hands, and we’re straight edge and we don’t consume anything else that couldn’t be further from the truth. There’s a wide range of people that don’t drink alcohol included most of the CEOs of the brands that you consume right now. So so that’s kind of what we’re our mantra is more of that excellence through temperance, that me total vibe, like yeah, just really investing in yourself almost. And I think where we could probably tie it back to what you’re doing. Because a lot of the people that I see talking about this online, I mean, sobriety and non alcoholic, in the non alcoholic movement has, like, permeated all through society. But you see all these clinicians and you see all these, like, you know, doctors, and you know, Stanford Medical School, Harvard Medical School people, you know, rolling out their 62nd, TikTok. And going viral and they got their own podcast talking about how to, you know, supplement magnesium and all this different kind of stuff. I feel like right now, the non alcoholic folks are kind of getting lumped into that kind of neuroscience TikTok world. And for better, for worse, I don’t care. I think it’s a better place to live than being considered the Uber driver or the software that’s driving everybody around that kind of person, or the person that killed somebody in a car accident. So

JM Guthrie 33:55
I think the question, Mike, for me is, do you think that there’s, as the most psychological and scientific thinker on this call? Is there importance or value as we’re trying to encourage others to read your book, or to reconsider their relationship with alcohol, to have some monitor that people can get behind? Or at least the motivation factor of, you know, some flag that’s better than a specific one to encourage that, like that sort of first step in the process? That make sense? Yeah. So

Mike Hardenbrook 34:26
I can answer that. And that makes perfect sense and exactly what Joe said. So really, it’s about all I’m asking from anyone that reads the book, is to start to understand their relationship with alcohol to start. And the hard ask that I have in there is that you’ve just stopped drinking for 66 days, after 66 days, you can choose whether or not you want to reintroduce or go further. So in my case, you know in the So also, my hope is that asking forever upfront is very difficult, especially when somebody’s into that they’re locked in at that point, they’re still hooked into something. So asking them to let it go forever at that point. That’s difficult. I’m just asking for 66 days, after 66 days, you’re gonna be a different person, you know. And so at that point, that’s when they need to reevaluate and think to themselves. Do I want to do this forever? Do I want to do this for another 66 days? Do I want to go for a year, you know, that’s really like, what I’m hoping to get them to is give them the tools to get through 66 days, which like their scientific reasoning, behind that number, as far as habit formation, as the main number, you know, habits can be formed between 18 254 days on more of a recent study, the more simple habit like brushing your teeth is shorter and more complex, like running an ultra marathon could be, you know, much longer. But really, it’s about getting to that point, and then being mindful thereafter. So you’ve gotten there, if you want to reintroduce yourself, you are now equipped with tools to look out for the warning signs, you’re now equipped to understand, like, what is your trigger that better be more in tune to see when your habits start repeating itself and replacing your good habits with the old bad habits. And then maybe you need to say to yourself, well, I gave that a shot. moderations not going to be for me, you know, or maybe they have reset there, you know, I have a chapter called a pendulum theory. And it’s about how we go back from one extreme to the other. And really, if you don’t stay at one extreme long enough, it’s just gonna keep swinging back and forth, because you didn’t get enough, they have a chance.

JM Guthrie 36:56
So really 66 days without drinking, regardless of what your intent is. So if I’ve wanted to slow down, if my intent is to slow down, not to stop altogether, you’re what you’re saying is the direction 66 days, no drinking and then reassess.

Mike Hardenbrook 37:12
Right? Yeah, and you know, when I put it this way, these terms, like, if I like, people would be like, 66 days, that’s long. You know, some people really think that, especially if you drink like every weekend, or a happy hour every night. But if you are like, like, think about, like if somebody told you, Hey, listen, you can start a business, this can make you a bunch of money. In 66 days, people will be like all that’s quit, you know, I’m all in. But if you say hey, I’m gonna give you a program in 66 days, like, you’re going to, you’re going to sleep great, you have better sex, you have more energy, you’re going to perform better, like all these, you’re going to have better spirituality, like better relationships, like think about that. That’s like life changing. But for some reason, people think that 66 days is a long time. So I don’t like to get into like the money that you’ll save by not drinking. But I get into the money that you’ll sit the time that you’ll save, because it’s crazy. So like, let’s say you do Happy Hour every night for two hours, and you have a bottle of wine in front of the TV for two hours. Well, that’s two hours, right? Let’s say you’re not going to wake up at the same time, probably. So let’s say you wake up, instead of waking up at five, you wake up at seven or six or eight, that’s another two hours, then you get up and you’re unproductive for at least like probably two to four hours. On top of that the next day comparatively speaking, if you drink every single day, you literally lose 30% of your year. It’s amazing. Jeez, the least

JM Guthrie 38:43
I love this.

Joe Quattrone 38:44
Well think about it this way, like everybody every year, racks, racks 30 years it says it’s a new year, and I’m gonna have a resolution and I’m gonna do all these things. And it’s gonna happen this next year. Granted, most things fall off after 30 days. But if you actually just went through the 66 day approach, you could change, you could create five new habits that will last in the next year. Or you could change five habits that you want to get rid of. Like if you’re doing all kinds of drugs and alcohol. And so if you use that approach, and you really look at a calendar year, if you really want to create resolutions, and you want to use a neuroscientific approach to actually get it done in a real way, one at a time. 66 days you do five things.

JM Guthrie 39:25
What’s super cool is that my story started with a diet, right? The whole 30 diets and I didn’t drink for a month. And then I was like, let’s see if I can make it 66 days basically. And I did and then all of a sudden it let me make it through the holidays. And so I subscribe to what you’re saying. And I certainly saw the benefits as I made it another day and another day and I definitely would have been the one that said 66 days sounds like a really long time. And then once you’ve made it 66 days, it’s like, what’s another 66 days? Now I’m feeling this little bit differently and sort of on and on. I’ve told Joe this story. The guy I talk to on a weekly basis, who has been so helpful for me in so many aspects of my life. He’s been part of my alcohol free and me total lifestyle, too. When I hit a year, I was so proud of myself, I was like, I hit it, you know, it’s a year, hooray one year, no drinking, and he was like, congrats on a year. Welcome to the rest of your life. And that’s when shit like, you know, because that number is much bigger than 66 days, right? And it’s some 1000s of days. But yeah, man, I just so profound, that thinking

Mike Hardenbrook 40:35
is that it gets easier, you know? Exactly. So, I mean, really, you just have to get to a couple weeks in that 66 days, and it gets easier. And then if you get to a year, I mean, you’re smooth sailing, as long as you’re like me, you’re mindful of and conscious of yourself and your emotions and how you react to them. Dude, life

JM Guthrie 40:54
One of our other hashtags is just keep it moving. So if you can keep it moving past two weeks past 66 days now for me almost two and a half years, it all of a sudden doesn’t even become a swing thought anymore, right? It’s just part of life. And you start to realize and value and measure all the benefits that are coming and all the bounty that you’ve received, in all the, you know, various aspects of life, both personally and professionally. And certainly, one of the things you said and we talk a lot about is just the connection, and the relationship, not only with the other people around you, your wife, your kids, your family, your colleagues, your community, but also yourself, dude, right? Like you’ve you understand yourself at such a profoundly different level that allows you to make these decisions. So much more informed. And it sounds like you know, I can’t wait to read the book, because I think a lot of what you’ve said, hits so closely to what we subscribe to and certainly believe in and why we’re here

Joe Quattrone 41:53
is no willpower required, and a neuroscience approach to change your habits with alcohol with Mike Harding. Brooke, Mike, is there a place where our listeners can connect with you a website, a social media platform that you’d like to connect with our listeners?

Mike Hardenbrook 42:09
Yeah, absolutely. My website is hardened brook.com. My last name and if you want to learn more about the book, you can go to hardened brook.com backslash, NW our as your willpower requires.

Joe Quattrone 42:23
And when is the book coming out?

Mike Hardenbrook 42:26
It is going to come out after the New Year. So we don’t have a hard date in January. But if people go and register on the website, I am going to send out early digital copies. So it’ll be out sooner than that. And for sure, we’ll order a

JM Guthrie 42:42
bunch of copies. And on that list today to

Joe Quattrone 42:44
get on the list are some advanced copies for friends and families and try to really push it out because it’s really aligned philosophically. We’re so close. Yeah, it’s crazy. Cool. Cool. Well, that’s all we got for you today. Mike. That’s all we got for you listeners of the FUZZEE-‘ish podcast, the kind of silver Show. I’m your host Joe got JM here, Mike signing off. Until next time.